Mainstreaming Preschoolers

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Melanie Butler on March 21, 2011 at 7:16am

My son went to what I believe was an integrated preschool in Nashua. For typical kids, it was called play pals and then there were kids on IEP's. Not sure what the ratio was of NT to special needs, but if you look up play pals and may give you more information. Of course, it sounds like you are very smart and have already looked into this stuff. Once again, I was probably fooled by the Nashua School System and it was "reverse integration." All I know, is I wish we didn't live here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 21, 2011 at 9:27am

Ha, ha, ha, "I wish we didn't live here." 

I moved here a year ago and I find myself saying that a lot!  My son has play pals a few afternoons a week, but there are far more disabled kids than non disabled and the class is designed for disabled kids.  An integrated school is supposed to be one that is designed for typical children and where more than half of the children who are attending are typical. 

 

I understand budgets, but our kids are a priority!  Our kids need to attend typical preschools throughout the community rather than being shut away in little classrooms like disabled kids were prior to the enactment of IDEA in 1975.  Has Nashua heard about PL 94-142, IDEA or the ADA?  Tracy 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Heather Tyler on March 21, 2011 at 8:40am

My son has been in a private preschool for 3 years.  I do pay for the preschool - we decided from the beginning that was where we wanted to be so I didn't fight getting anything covered.  We do go to public school for drop-in services at times when he does not have class (speech and OT) and the public school behavior specialists sits in on his class once a month to give them tips/pointers/assistance.  They have been very good about sharing information and giving advice whenever the school needs it.  I am also lucky that every teacher he has at over the past 3 years has had experience of some sort with a non-typical learners whether it be their own children or, this year, working on their masters in special ed.

 

There is a child in Ben's class this year who attends the preschool with her aide from Autism Bridges.  I do not know what the financial aspects of their arrangement are.

 

This morning I will be sitting in on the one integrated K class offered in the city's public schools.  The class is in high demand (I am told) and will do anything I can to get him in that class come Sept!

 

Schooling is the thing that I seem to stress over the most.

 

Heather

 

Heather

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 21, 2011 at 9:09am

Please let us know what your impressions of the class are.  How many kids are there?  What seems to be the retio of disabled to non-disabled?  I know in the class my son is in, where they have 7 disabled to 5 non disabled in the afternoon, it is called an "integrated" class.  I didn't know Nashua only has one integrated kindergarten class.  Wow.  What school is it at? 

 

My son needs an aide in the class.  Thanks for the information about Autism Bridges.  

 

The most important reason I see for including disabled children in preschool classes is that research shows that typical children later accept disabled children more if they attend school with them at the preschool level.  Being accepted is the toughest thing for disabled children and if at a young age disabled kids are not segregated but integrated then they won't be rejected later.  It is natural for first graders to see disabled kids as different bacause prior to first grade they are treated differently, kept in seperate rooms and kept apart.  My son's experience at New Searles is a perfect example.  The disabled kids arrive before or after everyone else, they have their own playground, they eat lunch in their room rather than in the lunchroom, they have their own section of the school which they rarely leave, etc.  I read recently that Brown v. Board of Education applies in this situation.  If you substituted "disabled" for "negro" you would see the clear unequal treatment of our preschoolers.  It is no wonder they are later generally rejected in the public school. 

 

The disabled kids there, or at least the ones in my son's class, are treated wonderfully.  The staff are kind and capable.  I just feel that there should be true integration with typical preschoolers in typical classes - not just a few typical kids bussed in a few days a week for a few hours.  Tracy  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gayle Provost on March 21, 2011 at 10:35am

My son is 3 and currently goes to NEEP.  He is at Bicentennial in their "integrated" classroom.  To my knowledge the ratio of disabled -vs- non disabled is 50/50.  Next door they have an "autism room" but I'm unsure if it is integrated.  We were able to negotiate 4 days a week with the option for my son to stay through lunch and attend the afternoon session with the 4 year olds too. (so 6 hour days) He has a 1:1 para who does DTT with him at school and we were able to also get 4 hours a week of home ABA with his 1:1 para with BCBA Supervision 2x/month.  My son is considered "high functioning" so he is in a class with children with various disabilities.  On Mondays it is just children who are "identified" and then tues thru thurs it is integrated.  I was told this is done so they can spend more one on one time with introducing new educational concepts to the kids.  The staff has been wonderful and they are very protective of the students (which is nice, one less worry) The BCBA was hired this year (prior to that they didn't have one!).  She is wonderful, and seems to know her stuff which is nice too.  We are not easy parents to deal with and I think Marcia (NEEP coordinator) must shudder when it's IEP time for sure, but they have tried to work with us. 

I had another parent tell me she was unhappy at new Searls and had her child switched to bicentennial.  We are a different case alltogeather because we plan to homeschool.  The only reason my son is at the school right now is for socialization in an environment where he can get assistance to socialize if needed, and for his therapy.  We will not be enrolling him in classes from 1st grade on and will then try to negotiate drop in therapy.

 

I hope this info helps a little.  Keep us updated on how things go!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paula Y. Castro on March 21, 2011 at 11:46am

Hi Tracy,

I am concerned that the word "disabled" is showing a lot in your posts and it sounds all so negative. Our children with their challenges and all are a blessing to us. While I did move away, my son is still in a restricted classroom with two other kids on the spectrum, with an almost 1:1 ratio of instruction plus the speech and occupational therapies that he also receives.

As much as I would dream to have him in an integrated classroom right now, with all the therapies he needs, it would be disruptive to all other children if at all times of day he needs to be pulled out for therapy. He also needs to learn the structure of a classroom before he moves on. I am confident that soon he will be able to "graduate" into a more diverse classroom and while he might imitate typical ASD behaviors from other kids on the spectrum, please note that there are many neuro-typical children who come from home with outrageous behaviors as well, for instance, talking back at adults, throwing tantrums, etc.

 

I hope you can find the best place for your child soon.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 21, 2011 at 7:28pm

Hi Paula, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone.  My son has many negative behaviors, including screaming and needs a 1:1 aide.  My son has worse behaviors too.  He also talks back a little, throws tantrums and gets an "attitude."  We would not want him any other way.  He is wonderful the way he is.  I have an older son with Asperger's too.  I can say, having been through this twice, that having a child on the spectrum is tough, but there is not greater gift.  They are everything to us and that is why we want to give them the best possible environment to give them the best shot at happiness there is.  Again, thanks for letting me know that I was coming across negatively, as I didn't mean to.  Tracy

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gayle Provost on March 21, 2011 at 6:02pm

Tracy,

I was trying to help by sharing what we have been able to access through the Nashua school system, but I feel that I need to comment on a few things that you said above. 

First, you stated that it sounded like my son should be in a "regular" preschool class and not one with other children who are identified.  I don't feel that you can speak on that because you don't know my son or his abilities.  Yes, he is in a class with other children who have dificulties, but that doesn't mean thats a bad thing.  These children don't just have autism or behavioral issues.  Some have genetic disorders, learning issues, sensory issues, problems with socialization and others have medical issues.  "Disabled" means all disabilities not just autism.  One on the children in the class (and considered disabled) may be in a wheel chair for a medical reason.  Yes, he is in a wheelchair and considered "disabled" but his friendship with my child may be a great benefit.   "Disabled" can mean many things and the way you are using the term it sounds very negative.  In our home we focus on abilities not just disability.

In regards to my sons class, although big, its a nice mix of different abilities.  My son's social skills have improved greatly due to being in this class, and as I stated above, that is the primary reason for his enrollment.

 Second, you are incorrect about the BCBA in the district.  Her name is Kate Webb.  I don't know where or whom you received your information about her.  She is more than just nice but she is also a fantastic BCBA.   She not only has her Bachelors but also has a Masters and is Board certified.   Reguardless of this from personal experience I have found that the letters at the end of a persons name are just that, letters at the end of their name.  It's not always the degree they have but their skill and ability I'm looking for.  I had spoken with them at legth and picked her behavioral plan apart before my child even began it.   You will encouter people with more degrees than you could count but they may still be terrible at what they do.  On the other hand you may have someone  with no degree and does an excellent job.  It's not the degree I'm looking at but the ability of the person providing the service.I'm honestly offended by your coment, " You should really ask for the qualifications of the teachers working with your kids. " As to imply that I didn't do my homework.  Believe me, I did and I know for a fact that my child is getting quality services. If for one second I thought my son wasn't recieving quality care and therapy I wouldn't bring him there. 

If you are concerned about the services you are being offered than talk to the people providing them.  It seems you have a lot of problems with the school district.  If you want you child to attend a private school then you have every right to send them to one.  The nashua school district is only given a certian amount of money and they are doing the best they can.  In my opinion they do a great job and they care about every child there, and that means alot. 

I understand some of your frustrations, but remember, these people didn't go into their line of work for the money and the glory.  They care about these kids.  If they could get more for services for our kids they would.  I don't envy Marcia for her job.  She cares about these kids too.  She can walk into any classroom and tell you the name of every child there.  Imagine how hard it must be for her.  She wants more for them too.  If you have concerns or issues then you need to talk about it with them. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gayle Provost on March 21, 2011 at 8:49pm

Tracy,

I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your son.  That is our worst fear.  I can see where you are coming from. I know that my son is safe in the NEEP and I hope you can feel that same comfort too. My response came because I felt you were attacking the people who work for the NEEP.  They are all a part of our "team" for my son which means if I feel they are in question then I am going to defend them.  Kate is on staff as a Behavioral Therapist and has a Masters degree for that field.  She is not a teacher, but may be persuing that because of her position in the school system.  (maybe this is why there may be some confusion).  Although Kate may not be a licensed teacher, she definitely knows how to teach.  I don't want other parents to see this and think that Nashua has a bad preschool program or that Kate or anyone else working in the program wern't great at what they do, because they are fantastic.  (At least I think they are.) When it comes to LRE and IDEA, I don't really agree.  My son is diagnosed with Autism and he is in an integrated preschool class.  He is in no way segregated.  If you have concerns then you should definitely take them to the school and discuss them.

Gayle

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 21, 2011 at 9:23pm

Hi - I am wondering the same thing about Kate.  I bet the school gave me her "teacher" credentials rather than her BCBA credentials.  As far as quality, I do agree with you.  The staff is great.  In Mass, where our son was abused, the district had a great reputation and most of the staff we good.  However, there was a culture that allowed a bad teacher to exist.  I don't think that culture exists at New Searles.  I can tell when I send him off everyday that he is being well taken care of and the team taking care of him really cares about him and the other kids.  This means so much to me.  I am amazed at how well they handle tough behaviors like screaming and biting.  Another thing that really impressed me about the district was that they hired Teresa Bolick, BCBA, as a consultant.  This may have been before Kate.  She wrote goals for my son's IEP and read reports.  To have such an expert at the IEP meeting was amazing.  So, I am impressed with Nashua in many important ways, but in my opinion, they still need to either contract more with private preschools to mainstream kids that can be better served by full integration or start their own.  Tracy  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 23, 2011 at 12:41pm

Hi Gayle, I have talked to the school and asked for the qualifications of the people working with my son.  Qualification and training are very important when it comes to caring for children on the spectrum.  It is true that the right training and education won’t insure that a person will be able to properly care for your child, but it is a one good step in that direction.  The teachers, paraprofessional, and other staff are great with my son and are very competent.  This is not always the case.  Prior to moving to Nashua my son was abused by one of his teachers and during the police investigation it was discovered that the teacher didn't have the proper training.  This is where I am coming from.  I think it is something that is better to know ahead of time, rather than later.  We feel fortunate in that we don't have to worry about this happening where he is now because we can tell that our son is being well taken care of in the school by everyone who is with him. 

I am a strong believer in integration of children of all abilities.  I don't think children in wheelchairs, or with any type of problem at all should be segregated from the general population unless it is what is the best thing for them.  Some kids do need specific types of environments that won't work in a regular classroom and that IS the least restrictive environment for that child.  Most children with disabilities however benefit from being in an integrated environment most of the time.  Preschoolers who think differently and learn differently, should be allowed to go to school with other preschoolers in the community, not put in self contained classrooms. 

Your comments about Marcia as being good with children are not in dispute.  Marcia, as all the staff, are great with kids.  My issue is with the policy of the same segregated placement program for all preschoolers on the specrum on IEPs. This policy is against federal IDEA laws.  Tracy (this post has been edited by me)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tracy Saunders on March 23, 2011 at 12:25pm

Hi Gayle, It sounds like you are getting some services as far as Nashua goes, but it also sounds like your son should be in a regular preschool class, not one in which half of the kids are disabled and for one day a week all of the kids are disabled.  He can get discrete trial teaching in a regular class and then also have that socialization with typical kids in a typical environment. 

 All the preschool classes in Nashua seem to be the same set-up.  Monday is all day disabled.  Tuesday – Thursday is morning disabled and the afternoon is play pals.  It seems there are too many kids in the classes as well and they know it.  In a recent article in the Telegraph Marcia Bagley discusses the preschools:

“Currently the state has not come in to police us on that, but do have parents aware of that number and have called me to complain about number of students,” Bagley said.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/904815-196/more-spending-on-nee...

I highly recommend observing your child’s class.  You might be surprised, even in the “integrated” time, how much screaming goes on in an autism class.  It isn’t anyone’s fault, but many children on the spectrum, as we all know, sometimes scream at the sound of singing, annoying noises, or for no reason at all.  When you get seven children together it seems someone is screaming or making some type of noises at least about two thirds of the time.  This is exactly why it isn’t the best situation to put people with certain disabilities all in one room together.  Preschool children copy each other’s negative behaviors, get on each other’s nerves, and generally don’t learn the skills they will later need for life or for later public school.  The classes can be very unsettling when several children with sound sensitivities are all screaming at once to block out the sounds of the other’s screaming.  The staff is wonderful in how they gently handle the children, but many of kids need typical peers in a more normal environment to prepare them for life.  Some of the children do need a high level of support that these rooms can provide, but many do not.  Transitioning to a typical class will be much harder for a child who has been in the all-disabled class most of the time.  If you look at the number of hours spent with disabled peers vs. the “integrated time” it is about 33 percent with half play pals (it isn’t integration) and 66 percent totally disabled.  Our kids need more.  Tracy  (I edited this post as there was a mistake in the previous post)

 

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page